Thursday, July 30, 2009

What is up with the CentOS project

Some people may have noticed the open letter to Lance Davis that has appeared on the CentOS website (www.centos.org) or the CentOS mailing list (http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2009-July/079767.html). Some people may also noticed that the project was not running as it should lately. Since it is in the open now I can talk about all this. These are my personal opinions about this issue.

I only joined the project a little more then two years ago, so I'm was not personally involved in the start of the CentOS project. Lance is one of the co-founders of the project. I really would like to thank Lance, and the other co-founders, for their work and getting this great project started. But from the time I got involved in the project things have gone from bad to worse with Lance.

Now, I don't know him or what is going on at his end. So I'm only going to report facts here and leave the interpretation of these to you, dear reader.

The first issue is that Lance basically is not actively involved in the project anymore. He attends meetings irregularly. If he was present and was asked certain things, he usually said that he need to look that up or he will do that later. But that never happened. And next to the meetings we do not see or hear from him at all.

The second issue is that Lance has registered the centos.org domain using one of his companies and that the rest of the team has no control of it. He is the only one who can make changes to it. It is not registered to he project itself. He recently even put a anonymiser service on the domain, meaning that people can no longer see the real owner of the domain.

The third issue is that Lance is the only one who has access to the PayPal and Google AdSense accounts that are used on the CentOS websites. This basically means that all money that comes in through those channels went directly to him, not to the project. We again have no control over it.
We repeatably asked Lance for a overview of the finances of the project, but he never showed that to the rest. We have no idea how much money flowed into the project.

These three issues basically means that the project depends to much on one person and that a lot of things are invisible for the project and the community. And this is unacceptable. We need to be transparent and Lance is preventing this. We asked repeatably to correct these things in private. But he never did.

So we, the rest of the team, have said that this was enough. That is why the public letter was made and also why we removed, temporarily, the Google ads and the link to PayPal from the CentOS website.

We still like to make things right and give Lance the change to correct all this and open up. If not we will continue without him and get the project back on track. And yes, this might potentially mean that we loose the centos.org domain and all the money already received by the project through the ads and PayPal. This is also what I regret the most, that money that people have donated, thinking they are helping the project, flowed to 1 person. I sincerely apologize to everyone for this.

The open letter and thoughts of other team members can be found on the following none centos.org sites :

http://www.karan.org/blog/index.php/2009/07/30/open-letter-to-lance-davis
http://orcorc.blogspot.com/2009/07/sadly-open-letter-to-lance-davis.html
http://lestighaniker.de/2009/07/30#open-letter-to-lance-davis

And I will also reproduce it here for completeness:

July 30, 2009 04:39 UTC

This is an Open Letter to Lance Davis from fellow CentOS Developers

It is regrettable that we are forced to send this letter but we are left with no other options. For some time now we have been attempting to resolve these problems:

You seem to have crawled into a hole ... and this is not acceptable.

You have long promised a statement of CentOS project funds; to this date this has not appeared.

You hold sole control of the centos.org domain with no deputy; this is not proper.

You have, it seems, sole 'Founders' rights in the IRC channels with no deputy ; this is not proper.

When I (Russ) try to call the phone numbers for UK Linux, and for you individually, I get a telco intercept 'Lines are temporarily busy' for the last two weeks. Finally yesterday, a voicemail in your voice picked up, and I left a message urgently requesting a reply. Karanbir also reports calling and leaving messages without your reply.

Please do not kill CentOS through your fear of shared management of the project.

Clearly the project dies if all the developers walk away.

Please contact me, or any other signer of this letter at once, to arrange for the required information to keep the project alive at the 'centos.org' domain.

Sincerely,

Russ Herrold
Ralph Angenendt
Karanbir Singh
Jim Perrin
Donavan Nelson
Tim Verhoeven
Tru Huynh
Johnny Hughes

171 comments:

Anonymous said...

You guys are like little kids who do not know how to play together.

That is the problen with opensource projects, you don't have the sales team, or the "popular" kids telling the nerds how to play.

grow up and play together.

Anonymous said...

Just an FYI: you wrote, "repeatably", when I believe you meant, "repeatedly".

Anonymous said...

If he is alone, the project is open source and the only problem is the domain. Group together, take the project on your shoulders and move it to a new domain no? Like newcentos.org .... centos is well known everyone on the web will know it in less than 1 day. Unless there are other legal implications to the brand or something like that, I do not see the problem.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous #1 = asshole.

Lance is Great said...

Check out Lance Davis' blog. He apparently is bashing :
Russ Herrold
Ralph Angenendt
Karanbir Singh
Jim Perrin
Donavan Nelson
Tim Verhoeven
Tru Huynh
Johnny Hughes

And re-forking CentOS. Apparently the crew that wrote the letter are script kiddies and not real developers. Hopefully Lance can bring CentOS back to what it should be without the infighting.

Anonymous said...

RE: Lance is Great

What is lance's blog url?

Unknown said...

Where is Lance Davis' blog. If he really is bashing all the other CentOS devs, it sounds like he has really lost it.

Anonymous said...

I made a decent donation to the project; I'm pretty upset it's "gone". There might be some legal implications to hoarding that money.

Amit Bahree said...

Well, I don't know Lance, but I do know some of the guys who signed the letter and they are far from "script kiddies" - you need to hang out with them to get to know them. I just hope this is all sorted as most of what these people do is for the passion and on their own time and money.

Gary Olson said...

What you have is a business problem. Set up a non-profit corp, vote yourselves as officers, take legal ownership of the "distribution", then send a legal request to the domain owner to request transfer of the domain to the legal non-profit.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous #4, give it a rest, Anonymous #1 is not an asshole.

#1 simply demands the same level of integrety and professionalism that corporations exhibit. Say, for example, AIG, Madoff Investment Securities, Countryside Mortgage Company, or any number of well run organizations with exceptionally competent CEOs.

No, A1 iss not an asshole. Simply a troll.

Anonymous said...

It's a shame that you didn't make it public that the money was going to one person long before now.

All those people who donated, in good faith, while you secretly knew that their money was no going to the project!

Blissex said...

«All those people who donated, in good faith, while you secretly knew that their money was no going to the project!»

But I would say that from Lance Davis' point of view, the money was going to the project, a project owned by himself.

If he owns the website, the accounts, the people who are now complaining are in effect just unpaid interns volunteering to work on his property for free.

The money and the control go where they belong to, the owner of the property.

The real issue is not that the owner of the property was quite legitimately receiving the income from the property he owns and controls.

The real issue is that people contributing to or using CentOS were somehow under the impression that it was an open project, not a private property.

It now turns out that CentOS Inc. is a private property like RedHat Inc,, just with a somewhat different revenue model.

Anonymous said...

I think you may well be wrong that Lance is the "owner" of CentOS. It's more likely that CentOS is, legally, more akin to a partnership albeit one of the worst types possible - where nobody has formalised things properly.

Lance is not, alas, without previous form for such things both in the Open Source world and, prior to that, in business.

Anonymous said...

It would be interesting to find out exactly "what" has been done to contact Lance and how long indeed he has been MIA.

I have had to deal with "needy developers" that can't function without your voice on the phone at least every few days. Maybee he's on vacation without e-mail? Maybee he's got something going on in his life.

If he's avoiding you there obviously are some problems that are not being discussed. Sending an "open letter" like this with the intent of humiliating him publicly is only going to make matters worse. Many people don't respond well to "power grabs".

Instead of looking at Lance as the problem why not take a good hard look at yourselves. As a CentOS user I certainly don't want to see this project fragment into 5 or 6 obscure and less useful projects when one would have done just fine. Please guys for the sake of the user community work your issues out.

Anonymous said...

This really reminds me of the late boxtorrents... they moved to a new doamin and name, so you can guess how the things turned out to be.

I hope it is not so, but especially the refusal to clarify the finances is fishy (idk, maybe in both cases, the admins tried to use the money to get some quick profit and return them before anyone notices but it went wrong... whatever).

Unknown said...

To the last two ACs: Please read the fine post as well as the links to the other developer's posts.

They explain everything. Really.

Just about everything in the last two comments are very incorrect, so please inform yourself before posting more non-sense.

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Anonymous said...

You know what is funny? Lance is back, everything is almost resolved, yet no one has the balls to post where Lance was, or to appologize for diving off the deap end.

People are fast and ready to bitch, but very slow on admitting wrong doing, or saying sorry.

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